Re-open?
Due to overwhelming amount of feedback from the press and our loyal users, we are now seriously considering opening up housing123 for user contributed property listings. We would also like to welcome content from real estate agents and brokers.
The revised website will strive to focus on quality, integrity, and as always, "make Toronto housing easy".
If you are interested in such a service, please contact us for more information.
Stay tuned!!
Kevin and Travis
info@housing123.com
posted by Kevin Lai @ 2:00 PM
56 Comments
56 Comments:
I found your site to be useful and helpful. Not only was it easy to find a home in the city you like, but the exact neighbourhood. I look forward to your new site!
Thats great news!!! Thanks guy!!
That's great news... best real estate website anywhere.
Sadly, very few consumers appreciate that the MLS monopoly on publishing online real estate listings in Canada keeps listings fees double what they would be if open competition were permitted.
This is another example of Realtors trying to "control the cow so it can be milked". When will the consumer public wake up????
Yes, yes, yes! Please re-open! Your information was very valuable. Glad to see the article in Saturday's Globe and Mail. Maybe it'll get your word out there.
This post has been removed by the author.
Open back up if you can. MLS is just milking all the money out of this monopoly. We need more competition in Canada in the real estate market. Introduce private listings as well as smaller independent brokers to start and offer listing rates to other larger companies. Supply and demand should warrant the market value of an online listing. Not a monoploy
Your site was excellent. What a shame that MLS has forced you to take it down. It is infinitely more user friendly than MLS. Please do keep it going with user listed homes. Fantastic idea!!!
Kevin,
I first heard about your site in the Globe and Mail today... I am glad that you are working to create better tools for online searching and I will do what I can to help, the surprising part is I am a realtor. I work for a company that does a full service listing on the MLS for as little as 1% total commission. We are with you in the fight to open up the market to more competition and we get similar feedback to yours from within our own industry other agents would love to shut us down, but we work very hard to follow their rules better than they do so their out of luck on that front. I pay buyers for the privilege of helping them and I work hard to use on the tools at my disposal to an excellent job each time I get the opportunity... check out our company web site homeatease.ca or email me at jshine@homeatease.ca if you and your wife still need help finding a condo.
oh... that's what the preview is for to fix the dumb typos you make when you are whacking away at the keys with more passion than contemplation... oh well now I know better for next time.
Saw the article in today's Globe and found myself nodding my head vigorously. As a buyer of rehab properties, I have long been dissatisfied by the lack of flexibility exhibited by the MLS database. I laughed out loud when their spokesperson was quoted in the article as saying that their site didn't need to be improved. You have tapped into something revolutionary. Stay the course.
(P.S.:You might think about working with a company like ForSaleByOwner.)
I agree with the previous commenters suggesting of collaboration with folks like http://www.propertyguys.com/ or http://bytheowner.com/ to offer value added service for private sales. It makes a lot of sense.
Let's do this. Damn the man.
I support you and your site, and anything and any action you have to take to keep it up and running.
Toronto Housing is already easy! It is the authority of real estate: the MLS.
Everything else is a sample of the real thing.
the Treb are a bunch of luddites. i can't believe they don't get what you are doing. the best way to do this is exactly what you are doing, get people to submit independently and offer a better user interface. that way you will be better than the treb in no time at all. you should partner with craigslist
I will forward all actual mls listings to anyone, (as long as you are not under contract with an agent). It is an automated process and you will receive zero pressure. There is no charge or commitment for this service.
goto:
http://www.realtytoronto.ca/Home_Search/page_2034179.html
http://www.realtytoronto.ca
this is the correct link for free mls listings
MLS is frustrating to use. They systematically leave out details and the pictures are intentionally crappy.
MLS is working on using a map feature from Microsoft, which might mean that you won't be able to use it without Microsoft Windows. No Mac, no Linux, no old Windows computer.
I sincerely hope you can utilize an open system like Google maps, and make it attractive enough to offer some stiff competition.
In Ottawa for instance, there is grapevine.ca which proves that there ARE real alternatives to MLS.
I hope you can find the funding to help create a bit of a body with some protection so that you don't have to feel intimidated by MLS, because they will do anything in their power to protect their little spiel.
Make it so !
during the last few months that i have been looking for a condo, i found myself browsing housing123 so many times that i made it my home browser. Your site was amazing and so much easier to use than mls.ca Please find a way to bring it back to life and keep up the good work
Great news...
The MLS monopoly is a joke, soon to end. I would suggest offering a service to all of those "For Sale by Owner" brokers and assistants and to the general public.
When i sell my house, i wont be paying a listing agent. They are a waste of time / space / energy. I will pay the purchasing agent, and hope to use all web tools available to promote my property.
Great mash-up, too bad the pricks at MLS cant see the end of their era or they'd be more supportive.
Kevin you guys were doing an excellent job by hosting 123. It saved lots of time and energy for home buyers like us. listings. MLS listing is pain in the back to go through all the listings.Ever since we heared about your Housing 123 site at consumer alert in CTV news 6 months ago, I and my wife use to visit your site daily to look for any listing in our desired location.Such a ease of use :-)
Pl. don't give up
It pisses me off that they shut you down. It's arbitrary. According to crea, people cannot in any way use the word mls, or realtor in their domain name. Do a search for domains with realtor in it, and this is what i get in the first few pages:
http://www.vancouverrealtor.info/
http://www.vancouverrealtor.org/
http://www.kelownarealtor.com/
http://www.reddeerrealtor.com/
http://www.winnipegrealtors.ca/
http://www.myrealtorteam.ca/
http://torontorealtor.org/
http://torontorealtor.ca/
http://www.montrealrealtor.ca
http://www.calgary-realtors.com/
http://www.calgaryrealtor.net/
http://www.calgaryrealtor.org/
http://www.realtorcalgary.com
http://www.albertarealtor.net/
http://www.albertarealtor.info/
http://www.leducrealtor.com/
http://www.vancouverrealtor.info
http://www.cowtownrealtor.com/
http://www.airdrierealtor.com/
http://www.albertarealtor.ca/
All those are in violation, but they won't be touched.
I hope you get back into it, man.
Hope the site comes back up again soon! You guys are not even making a penny off this and these guys are trying to close you down when you are providing free advertising for them? how do you spell stupid? REALTOR
Unfortunately, while the site was definitely useful, it was, unfortunately, scraping (stealing)copywrited data without authorization. Just like Napster in the 1990's, it was bound, sooner or later, to come down.
The developers of the website knew full well what they were doing was contrary to CREA's Terms of Usage, and sorry people, MLS and REALTOR are copywrite terms by the Canadian association and can only be used by members of CREA.
If the developers were so smart, why didn't they approach CREA about a potential licensing agreement for their product?
To the anonymous comment above,
- We didn't explicitly use the word MLS to promote our website, they appear on the webpage because of Google ads, where Google choose to show MLS related ads in the page. CREA claimed that we violated trademark and we didn't bother to explain.
- We DID approach CREA with a number of emails in the beginning. The lawyer letter was the first response we got from them, and was almost a year later since the launch of the website.
For an industry that's so intensely location-focused MLS offers the most pathetic excuse for location-based searches. In the last five years I've moved twice and while MLS was useful (in the better-than-paper way) every time I went on the site I was frustrated by the feeble search features. I found your site about a month after I bought my current house and was using it weekly to check the listings in my area. Keep up the great work - I look forward to your new site.
Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee hurry with the new site. I can't use MLS anymore.
Yes please re-open, I used it daily in my search for a loft/flat
The agent get the sale and the fee regardless this site just speeds up the search and wastes less of the agent's time.What is MLS's problem !
I am looking forward to re-openning the site. Thanks, guys.
I really like your site and would love for it to be back in action. It is a useful tool to find homes in Toronto, and much more user friendly than MLS. I prefer your map interface!
CREA is launching their new site this week (supposedly) Let's see if it happens, it has been delayed numerous time.
http://www.realtor.ca
please find a way, so easy to use
From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080621.MLS21/TPStory/TPEntertainment/Ontario/
By the end of the summer, MLS.ca will have a map component, Mr. Lindberg says. Beyond that, he says, the site does not need to be improved. "We've created a very effective and efficient system that the consumers love."
That is disgusting. They need to be taken down.
If the MLS site did not need to be improved other than maps, by their own admission, then why is the new realtor.ca site completely different from mls.ca?
From my perspective, it seems pretty good overall although it could use the ability to jump to specific neighbourhoods instantly.
Anyone else have thoughts on realtor.ca?
Since the site has been closed down I have found searching through listings on mls a chore, with housing123 it was a pleasure.
I hope you find a way to bring it back.
MLS.ca offers its users a frustrating and time consuming experience. Period.
As a Realtor, the reason I have invested my money in providing my listing information to the public, on-line is to get you to call me. The internet is for the most part, just another advertising medium.
A couple of months ago, a friend of mine told me about housing123 and I thought it was great. I informed my friend though that MLS data is proprietary and under the privacy act we must protect it.
I also showed him the Beta Version of Realtor.ca and it's the same thing as housing123 with one vital difference, it doesn't have housing123's fatal flaw. It has up-to-date complete information. I looked for my listings from MLS.ca on housing123 and it was missing entire neighbourhoods and buildings, areas that had 20, 30 or more listings on MLS.ca had none on housing123. In fact, most available MLS listings were not even on the housing 123 site. They just could never keep up with all the data that's required to run a complete MLS map driven search engine. There's 40,000 plus listings at any given moment and about 25% of those get updated daily. Think about what it takes and how much we spend keeping the public informed of the available listings already. We have around 40000 people in toronto alone working on keeping you up-to-date.
If you want to just flitter around surfing houses and condo's that probably have already sold, housing123 is a fun idea. For seriously buying a home, it's impractical and even more frustrating than MLS.ca Contact a local Realtor, Their passion is taking the frustration out of your search for a home.
Housing123 is a good idea, one that was already being worked on by the people who've spent decades trying to make Real Estate buying and selling experiences better for everyone.
I wish Kevin Lai & Travis Feilding all the best. Perhaps they could contact CREA and help them work the bugs out of Realtor.ca.
Garry D. Anderson
Sales Representative
garry@thetagariteam.com
Hi Gary,
Your points are well taken.
Perhaps what the association that regulates realtors needs to do is filter the many bad reps. Like any profession there are good reps and bad reps, however, in my experience and the experience of my house buying friends we had way more bad experiences then good experiences. The services they perform is not equal to the prices charged and there is no value. This is especially troubling consider MLS has a near monopoly on the market.
While having more certified agents increase competition and in due time decreases price and increases quality of service. I believe CREA has done a horrible job in monitoring the ethics of such many agents.
One thing I find very annoying on Realtor.ca is the inability to zoom in at the level I want. Try zooming into downtown Vancouver, there are so many units for sale and I can't zoom in more to further restrict the search area. When I try to zoom in, in "bounces" me back out, I have no idea why. Realtor.ca is a useless site.
Housing 123 was simple visually and very user friendly. This is what MLS.ca and reality.ca is not, that's what the MLS people don't get... It's like they have hired programmers to do a designers job.
I wonder when Rogers and MLS will team up?
Your website was a fantastic piece of work, simple elegant and a valuable asset to all that used it. I am deeply troubled by the approach taken by MLS to close the site down, and wish some other compromise could have been sought.
For one, I would have liked to see MLS buy your methodology and know-how. Clearly the visionaries within the MLS Regime have blurred vision.
I wish you luck with further exploits.
Although some info is supposedly proprietary, their info is not necessarily timely or accurate when it's on the web either (but once it's published to the public by them, doesnt it belong to the public domain for ANYONE to use?) These ppl should realize that you guys are a valuable asset to them and it would be a detriment to them to their business, for trying to shut you guys down.
What is ironic is that they should promote and utilize the talent that we have here, esp. when you have tried to contact them, and not to suppress your talents, because it would be to their-and our-tragic end for such a great service.
I hope that another service or a new group/board or business (or may be we should start our own :-P ) will align with you in this most valuable endeavour to apply your services. I also hope all those who want this service to be started again will support you guys in any way possible-be it financial, through sponsorship, or thru a membrship if that is necessary-but what makes it great is that it was a "free service" but i guess you were supported thru advertising posted on your site.
All the Best to you Guys because we appreciate it and you definitely have earned this recognition in the housing/real estate industry and in the Web Service Industry.
YK.
Guys,
Your losing support for the site. You guys got to reopen soon to sustain the momentum.
I am very much interested in your opening up housing123 for user contributed property listings.
I am sure it will still be better with more up-to-date and accurate information than MLS.ca.
As a first time buyer I became very frustrated with MLS.ca: on many occasions the property listed there is, in reality, has already been sold, but the agents involved in the closing deal are not updating or removing it from the listings. I feel that real estate agents turned MLS.ca in a tool that don't help any more but misinforms the buyers making the buyers give up their own attempts to make sense of the real estate market, blindly and follow whatever the agent is saying. Unlike their internal MLS system, the public MLS is not being updated in a timely manner: the property might get one week later after the agent started working with the seller. In my case, I found a house on MLS.ca which - after I called my agent who called selling agent - had been sold & closed for two weeks!!! On another occasion the information about the listing was completely wrong including (!!!) address; our agent just phoned the selling agent to clarify the details. So the public MLS.ca is very deceiving - it creates a sense of opennes of the real estate information available currently on the marker, whereas in fact there is very little accurate infomation in there, and it is still unacceptably difficult to find that information. The user interface of MLS.ca is extremely user unfriendly: there is no way to refine search criteria against the originally selected list, without going all the way to the first search page and start it from scratch; no way to select neighrourhoods - even though every agent works in select neighbourhoods, no way to save results to favorites (or wish-list) as MLS.ca offers NO user accounts or ANY personalization. In short, I got disappointed in MLS.ca to the point that I don't see it to be in interests of neither seller not buyer.
Wish you get the housing123 site up and running again!
Welcome to CREA/TREB world. You want your kids to have their own place. You are closing yourself into a 35 year mortgage prison. And all you get from your beloved REALTOR is a filthy piece of scrap paper with his sloppy handwriting all over it. That's your Buyer Agreement you will read in over and again when later when you loose your job and start asking yourself why did you pour all your cash and trust this questionable deal. And your rights are protected no better than in the no-rules-fighting...
The people that are really get hurt by having your site shutdown are the people trying to buy and sell a home - not to mention the real estate agents.
No one wins by having this site shut down.
Realtors is afraid of losing control of information. They don't realize that it will make it easier for people to find what they like; thereby, increasing real estate business.
Hello Mr. Lai,
I work in the R.E. industry and have hated the Toronto Real Estate Board for years. They have a few, in my opinion, anti-competitive practices.
My question is what the CREA lawyers told you about the MLS to shut down your site. Did they claim a copyright case on you?
The reason I ask is because I don't believe there is a copyright issue, at least not enforceable by CREA.
You see, copyright applies to original works. If I wrote that the sky was blue and then you did I couldn't claim copyright since it is not an original idea. The info on the MLS is not original either save for some of the comments by the brokers (and these are not real "original" either). The info on a house is just data - like size, location, price, etc. Most of it is a matter of public record anyway. CREA does not own this info, hell, the brokers don't own it either.
If anyone "owns" the information it is the home owners and they would be the ones who would have to sue for copyright, though again - there isn't any here. I am certain that most home owners just want to sell and could give a rat's ass if your site or MLS facilitates it.
Please email me, I think I may have another idea that may help you.
Andrew
I have a very specific Toronto neighbourhoods I'm interested in finding/buying a house in. I loved your site as it allowed me to focus my search and not waste my time. I have an agent (she’s fantastic) and when I found something I was interested in, I called her and we worked together. I don't see this site as taking anything away from anybody. Everyone wins!
So when is the new site opening?
I know that you're worried, but take heart. We're behind you.
Portal web site of house for Chinese in Canada
I know that you're worried, but take heart. We're behind you.
Portal web site of house for Chinese in Canada
Yeah. It will be good to see the competition of MLS listing.
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